yeah the up b isnt that hot, but at least its better recovery than bowsers. also mikey, his "suicide throw" can be made even better. when you run off a stage like fd, battle field, smashville, the ones with that slanted edge, backthrow your opponent into it on the way down, then jump up to safety, it ko's characters with bad recovery at like, 40-50%(easy with dk) and characters with good recovery at higher. if you are lucky on a good recovery you can footstool when they bounce, which is practically a guaranteed ko on everyone except pit and rob SOMETIMES. its risky, but easier since you can succeed at it al lower percents. i like his down b too much. i dont spam it in the traditional sense of just sitting there slapping the ground, but i sue it often since it has the largest melee attack(close range, not the previous game) in the game so basically other than projectiles it hits the widest area.